Monday, July 17, 2006

UKIP & BNP in Pact of Mutual Destruction

There's a council by-election in Dartford on 27 July and it appears the UKIP candidate has committed a bit of a howler by asking the BNP candidate, Kevin Saunders, to be his proposer on his nomination form. The BNP are cock-a-hoop.

The BNP describes the UKIP leadership as "incompetent, self-obsessed, politically vacuous and venal, at grass-roots level most members of the party are decent patriots whom we are pleased to call friends. Many members of UKIP attend local BNP meetings and vice versa and every single day we receive applications for membership from disillusioned former UKIP members. It was in this spirit of friendship and co-operation that Kevin Saunders agreed to propose the UKIP candidate in Dartford."

UKIP is a complete tailspin on this. A UKIP supporter in one of their online discussion forums comments: "If this is true it will cause untold damage to UKIP and used by our political enemies to prove a link between UKIP and the BNP! I can see a smug gloating Camoron saying 'told you so'."

I think comment from me is superfluous here. The facts speak for themselves.

UPDATE: This gets better and better. UKIP reckon they've been stitched up. See HERE. It was entirely a coincidence that the BNP candidate just happened to propose their candidate. Of course it was. The transcript between the UKIP press officer and a journalist/BNP supporter is hilarious. Like ferrets in a sack.

40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Well spotted Iain. UKIP/BNP, not much to choose between them

In Like Flynn said...

A colleague of mine spotted the other day that a K. Saunders had nominated the UKIP candidate whilst Kevin Saunders was standing for BNP... couldn't believe that it was actually the same person.. shows that DC's comment on UKIP was not far from the mark!!

Vikki said...

l like the phrase the "facts speak for themselves" well said lain!

Anonymous said...

No need for the childish fruitcake name calling...

...the facts really do speak for themselves!

Something that many of us have known for a long time but never had the evidence to prove before now.

strapworld said...

Having once for a matter of a few months been in UKIP.(I want OUT of Europe)..what the BNP have said is utterly true.

If they elect Nigel Farage as their leader watch that party collapse.

I attended a ukip meeting at a cornish pub which is owned by the parents of the leader of the BNP!

However most of the membership on the ground are decent, law abiding people who are very patriotic.

You only have to look at a report on one of Iain's reports on ukip EU MP's and their constant boozing etc. to realise the truth in the BNP description.

Nuff said.

Croydonian said...

Here comes a superfluous comment:

Possibly the single most idiotic thing that even UKIP has managed.

Ross F said...

I don't believe that most UKIP members are closet racists, but I haven't taken their anti-EU credentials seriously since they put up a candidate against Bill Cash at the General Election, Cash has done more to oppose Brussels than every member of UKIP combined.

phone cam foolery said...

strap
I am warming to you,
and no more bad language from me.

bt said...

Deary me.
No doubt Dave's little hench-persons will make a great play of this - or try to - they're not exactly brilliant at putting the boot in, or at much else, come to that.

Personally, it's reaching the point where I'd do a deal with the Devil himself if it meant getting out of the EU.
And for all their apparent ineptitude UKIP still looks more attractive than NuCons offering frankly Blairite answers to whatever questions are asked of them.

Fact is - I very much doubt that Dear Dave will still be leader in two years time. The grassroots I've spoken to lately seem to be losing patience with him.

Still, there'll be a place for him in the LibDems for sure.

don jameson said...

The ever-sniping C Noble seems strangely silent on this one.

Nice work Iain.

virtually anonymous said...

off-topic a bit: is that "Camoron" in the post a typo? It seems rather appropriate. He's the worst thing to happen to the Conservative Party and undoubtedly the reason why more "decent law-abiding patriotic people" would look to the nationalist parties. Much of what he says and does looks like a deliberate provocation of ordinary Conservative voters. IMHO.

virtually anonymous said...

bt said
Still, there'll be a place for him in the LibDems for sure.

Seconded. He is the born leader of the New Liberal Democrat Party (Notting Hill Tendency).

Christina said...

Of course this was written before Mark Croucher had the time to respond with the UKIP version of events. That's Mark Croucher who works with Searchlight.

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=12441&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50

For Iain to copy the words of the BNP website and comment 'facts speak for themselves' is quite incredible!

Iain Dale saying the BNP speak facts! Wow!

After Cameron's debacle with the EPP, and his description of it as a fulfilled promise, I'm not surprised Tories quote the BNP website and describe it as fact, anymore.

James said...

"You can’t record it, you mustn’t record it, I’ll contact the local police about this, recording something without my knowledge"

Classic. A positively glass coffee table moment (if you know what I mean).

strapworld said...

Christina,

Here we are reading one of the best 'free speech' blogs and you want it censored!

You do not rid the scene of parties/groups by pretending they do not exist. You identify and show how wrong they are. Invite them into a reasonable debate and defeat their arguments. Obviously you do not believe you can do that which is sad.

Christina was correct to identify Mark Croucher. He is a man who delights in telling lies. Nasty arrogant and totally out of his depth. If he was any good he would not be working for Farage...sorry ukip...sorry same thing!

Knapman is the present leader who loves to be referred to as one of Major's 'bastards' and a Maestricht rebel! He wasn't of course...he was a tory whip! but HEY let not the truth get in the way of a good lie.

phone cam foolery...thanks! It is the nicest thing anyone has said to me...today!

Bushbaby said...

This is priceless - I can't remember laughing so loud when reading a blog!

UKIP really couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery and to admit that they just trolled down a street collecting signatures from any passing resident is a clear demonstration of their total lack of nous.

The BNP will, of course, make what capital they can but if their candidate is supporting UKIP am I alone in thinking that the BNP candidate would rather vote UKIP than for himself? Coo .. talk about Demented in Dartford!

Will be fascinating to see if the Tories fight this by-election hard or copy their pussy-footing style from Bromley & Chislehurst.

Oh .. and the silly woman from UKIP who berates Iain for quoting from a BNP site really misses the point .... but that should be no surprise eaither.

phone cam foolery said...

I will come out of the closet
I am BNP supporter.
Say what you will.
I do not consider myself to be a hateful person, I am not a "paki basher", I don't hate gay people.
I do despise Communists.
I do hate the fact that my country is being over run by aggressive alien cultures.
I do hate the fact that murderers, rapists and child abusers have "rights".
I do hate the fact that the scum of the earth can walk into this country unimpeded and be given a warm welcome while our best our sent thousands of miles away to die for Blairs Billy Liar like fantasies.
I do hate the fact that some slimeball like Mandelsohn can dictate what kind of butter I can buy.
I do hate the fact that some total tosser like Neil kinnock and his entire family can drain the best part of £1 million quid a year from our economy
I do not want to "hug a hoodie"
I am British and a nationalist.
I vote BNP

Christina said...

Strapworld et al,

I have known for some time that the word in the BNP camp is that Nick Griffin believes a big UKIP split is going to happen soon. He wants to exploit it and try and persuade people into the BNP.

My knowledge comes from lurking where BNP members post. Now, the full article has the BNP saying they are not racist. Now, go to the Stormfront website and check out the Britain section. You will find a new thread today about this story started by a BNP member with a swastika in his avatar. They're complaining the BNP are helping UKIP!

I have not advocated censorship, I have strongly challenged a very experienced Tory about his assumption that the BNP story was FACT. There are always 2 sides to a story. I already knew Griffin was plotting about exploiting UKIP because I've read it online.

I also read that they were plotting to infiltrate the Tory Party and recruit disgruntled members as Cameron changes things too much.

Christina said...

Bushbaby didn't comprehend my post. I checked it, and the info is there.

When the BNP are accusing anyone, or Labour are accusing anyone, or the Tories are accusing anyone, or UKIP etc, then that is opinion. It isn't necessarily fact.

"It was in this spirit of friendship and co-operation that Kevin Saunders agreed to propose the UKIP candidate in Dartford."

Iain's statement about facts speaking for themselves include this statement. Mark Croucher's version from the UKIP candidate is different.

Hence, it is rather vain to declare something as fact until all parties have given their version of events.

These are 2 versions, we don't know what the facts are, just statements from the BNP and a UKIP spokesman giving the candidate's version of events.

phone cam foolery said...

Christina
Stormfront is not a BNP affiliated site.
I dare say you could visit any "Labour" working mens club and after a few beers hear opinions not too dissimilar from what you have read there, hang around the average Golf/Conservative club you will hear the same.
The BNP isn't about hate.

Gary Powell said...

Phone cam foolery
Yes I read what you say, and their are not to many ordinary hard working British people that do not feel simpathy with you on the issues you mention.

However the BNP is many things as well. The first and to me the most important thing is they are a SOCIALIST party. Dont believe me ask your leader Nick Griffin. I have and understand him very well.

As all populist parties they will say anything that sounds good to people that think government is the answer to their problems, instead of themselves.

No politician can help you, especialy a socialist one. If you dont know what a socialist is and Nick Griffin wont tell you, look it up in the dictionary. Just convincing Conservatives you dont want to burn Jews Muslims and anyone else you dont like, is a long long way indead from convincing a Conservative Libertarian that the BNP have anything to offer, but division, anger, dictatorship, intolerance, and STATE CONTROL of the meens of production. In my opinion when a countries government produces these things, a BIG WAR is soon to follow, which it can never win.

tapestry said...

UKIP/BNP cooperation is nothing new. They often arrange to fight separate seats. At Bromley BNP told their supporters to vote UKIP as they were not fielding a candidate.

bebopper said...

There's a rather smug tone about some of the comments on this thread that wouldn't go amiss on a NuLabour blog.
Let me remind you that the BNP like their mortal enemies the SWP are legitimate parties. The former exist because the main parties, including to their shame, the Tories, refuse to acknowledge the despair of indiginous people trapped in inner city areas most affected by unrestricted immigration. These people were the "salt of the earth" during the war. Now they think incorrectly and are just an embarrassment to the metropolitan elite that governs us.
A few days ago, I read that a teacher, who by all accounts was highly thought of, had joined the BNP. Uproar! Calls for his resignation! He was a science teacher. No evidence that he ever engaged his pupils in politics. But he was a member of the BNP. Not sound. Not thinking correctly.
Sorry to go on, but you get the gist: the Tories need to offer something to all people, including low income inner city families. If you don't the people will turn to the BNP or the SWP.

Gary Powell said...

You can easily spot a BNP fanatic. All you have to do is wait for them to finish their tirade against TB and New Labour. Then watch for the "The Tories are just the same" type stuff they slip onto the end.

While on the subject of the BNP, I warn the British people of this.

The BNP does have hope, but it is not now. By the time DC gets elected the Labour Party will have become a shatterd, bankrupt, visionless, dispirited, and friendless rump. This will cause a dangerous power vacume in Left-wing Socialist working class politics.

If DC or whoever, then screws up BIG time, all betts are off. We will all then hope the Lib/Dems will finally take their heads out of their rectums. My big worry is I dont think they ever will.

Gary Elsby said...

Of course there's a link between UKIP and BNP.

UKIP will be outraged at such a connection and former Tories will deny and denounce this link.

As a full time racist hunter, I can tell you that they are definitely racists but in total denial.

'We don't want to be ruled by a Euro Federalist Government' is what their standard reply is.

Now tell me what the difference is between loyal Torie Euro sceptics and UKIP actually is?

Gary

Rick said...

It is probably best if noone contests EuroElections - it is hard to believe the Tories, UKIP, or BNP could ever make any impact in the European Project.

We started out with appointed MEPs and now have list-MEPs another form of appointment.

There is no prospect of Tories or any other grouping bringing this project to heel, it has been singularly impervious to restraint or voter concerns to date and is institutionally incapable of halting the juggernaut.

It does not matter which party you vote for, all are equally impotent because the system was designed to create amorphous movements rather than parties on the Continental principle of Insiders Together.

strapworld said...

phone cam foolery...keep away from the swear words and people read and learn..dont they?

You are right about people in any Labour/Conservative Lib Dem/ Supermarket Town Centre etc etc. IF people could say what they really want to say and not be shackled by legislation which prevents free speech then politicians would react pretty damn quickly. BUT whilst they can label anyone as a racist and leave it at that, they are just brushing the problem under the carpet.

gary powell is also right. The BNP is a socialist outfit. Read and listen to Lord Tebbit he constantly reminds readers/listeners that facism was/is a socialist thing.

BUT who do people turn to when they see their beloved country being turned into 'communities' on which they have NEVER been asked to vote on!

I do worry for my country.

Anonymous said...

Iain,

the comments on that UKIP forum are informative. Check out this BNP sympathy posted by a *moderator* of that forum:

"One assentor does not make a link between the BNP and UKIP.

Anyway, there is some mutual ground, such as the mutual policy to leave the EU."

Yeah, lots of mutual ground between UKIP and the BNP. Let's expose it.

sheep_farmer said...

The once anarchist Guy Fawkes appears to be turning into Animal Farm so hey here are the comments from my Farm in Wales.

UKIP is old hat. Scotlish is no longer cool and it is time we said goodbye to the land of the midges.

UKIP should be renamed EWIP (sounds like an auction site for bondage gear).

Gary Elsby said...

I feel quite humbled intruding into this fight about the BNP, but again, I ask the question what is the difference of opinion regarding 'Conservative home' bloggers, UKIP and BNP when it comes to Europe and ethnio cleansing of Britain?

The Tory party associating itself with any of this is suicide, as your position in politics bears witness to.

It's a big mistake for you to believe that Tory/UKIP and BNP views are more loyal to Britain than mine.

I'm not a communist or a Republican and I certainly have loyalty to the Crown and Country. Play the Tory loyalty card if you want to, but I will scalp you when the time comes. Look at Hague for proof.I stopped you leaving the EPP.( you don't believe me, I know but just ask Dave and Wiilie).

UKIP is Racist full stop. Tony reckons they have a eurosceptic argument that needs listening to. No thanks, Tony. Their arguments are screwy.

A number of drinkers in the local working mens club voted BNP recently and installed one of Nick Griffin's Lieutenants in my ward.We lost. The drinkers collective violation of me personally was that they voted BNP to 'fuck all these niggers off'.

Seven days later, they apologised to me personally (shoot the messenger stuff)with total embarrassment.My refusal to budge and agree to basement politics won in the end.
Griffin is determined to push further in stoke for a hat-trick of seats and the fight has been going on for 80 years.

UKIP is run by an out and out racist and so is the BNP.
Cameron did the right thing by dumping intentions to leave the EPP and will do similar in 2009.

The daily mail newspaer group secretly supports the BNP and UKIP stance and disallows any dissent towards them.
That's why they're scoring.
Does Dave support this stance?
Gary

wonderful for his age said...

I just want vote for a party that will repatriate our sovereignty.

The links between some members of the UKIP and the BNP, such as they are, remind me of the links, a few years ago, between some members of the Labour Party and the Soviets. That didn't make the Labour Party synonymous with the Communist Party.

Come to think of it isn't our current Home Secretary (and a goodly few of his colleagues) an ex Communist.

I just want to vote for a party that will repatriate our sovereignty. UKIP looks like the best bet as things stand. Once we have reclaimed the right to rule ourselves I'll revert back to voting for or against hugging hoodies etc.

Jabberwocky said...

What do you expect ordinary English people to do when all the 'constitutional' parties are controlled by or frightened into silence by the Cultural Marxists that now run our country?

Any white person who dares to resist the imposition of multiculturalism, or question the wisdom of uncontrolled immigration is immediately denounced as a 'racist' and is in danger of losing their livelihood.

Yet when Kenan Malik says the same thing on Channel 4 ( http://www.kenanmalik.com/top/tv.html#disunitedkingdom ), these same people all nod their heads sagely and say 'we must listen to what he is saying'. Can you not see the double standards, and why it makes my blood boil?

If I am going to be labelled a 'racist' because I dare to challenge the prevailing orthodoxy, would someone please tell me who I can vote for with a clear conscience in an effort to reverse the disastrous slide of this country into oblivion?

Anonymous said...

Gary Powell, "the Labour Party will have become a shatterd, bankrupt, visionless, dispirited, and friendless rump. This will cause a dangerous power vacume in Left-wing Socialist working class politics." Good analysis, but one key point. That vacume (sic) is primarily amongst the new underclass of black and muslim (not hindu or sikh who are doing well) people - and they are already totally disaffected, the blacks perpetrating criminality of the worst and most medieaval sort, and the muslims doing you-know-what. Which goes a long way to explain the BNP's recent growth, along with the failure of the Tories to fight against PC nonsense and say openly what is happening. I very much fear that in the not too distant future Britain will go the way of Lebanon or Yugoslavia, with endless sectarian internal wars. What have we given our children? A country with 5 million immigrants in it who are utterly at odds with our model of society and who hate our values whilst at the same time profitting from them as much as possible.

I sincerely believe that the only thing that can help us before it's too late are mass-deportations to Pakistan - we wouldn't give them a choice, we would need the whole army to do it - and if Pakistan refused we would simply dump them in the sea off the shore.

It would be regarded as the worst human rights abuse in modern history and would also have the marvellous and immediate side-effect of expulsion from the EU.

God save us all if we don't. Look at Kosovo or Iraq if you want to see how British society will look in 2075 when the Muslims become the population majority in England and Sharia law becomes the battleground.

Gary Elsby said...

But who are you to deny multicultaralism?
It's here whether you or philips like it or not. Live with it, you don't have to love it or convert to Islamic Jihad, or agree with it.
What exactly is your problem? Labour activists couldn't give a fig about this hang up because it doesn't matter at all to anyone what other people get up to or worship. It's killing the tory part though, who created it in the first place, thanks to Winston.

Anyway, why can't I call you a racist if all you do is complain about something that's got nothing to do with you?

Besides, where do you get 'uncontrolled immigration' from? Another CCO classic no doubt.
Probably enought to stir it up a little in the ex-foxhunting stong-holds, I'm sure.

What's it like listening to Colonel Grapeshott and his 'ethnic issues'? Is it like my local workingmens club?

The Tories are responsible for the EU and immigration and passports.
I thought you'd be used to it by now.

Gary

Anonymous said...

I would like to thank UKIP for making future elections when we are fighting against UKIP so much easier.

Next election I forseee an article starting a little something like this:-

UKIP Branch Chairman and Election Candidate gets nominated by his neighbour, who is a BNP activist and BNP candidate. Would you touch this bunch with a barge pole?

Ranting Guttersnipe said...

"Now tell me what the difference is between loyal Torie Euro sceptics and UKIP actually is?"

An ounce of loyalty perhaps?

And further on:

"Anyway, why can't I call you a racist if all you do is complain about something that's got nothing to do with you?"

Probably because racism is discriminating against people based on their colour/race as opposed to your definition which appears to classify a racist as someone who complains about things that don't concern them.

Anonymous said...

Only sensible thing to do is vote for the English Democrats in Dartford (New England Party)

Buster George said...

Question,

Am I a Racist/BNP Supporter? Thanks to all the political correctness I can't say for sure anymore.

Yes I believe in a Britain for British People, but I don't judge British as a skin colour.

I dislike the fact that one immigrant then brings dozens of his family after him once we have given him a free home.

Especially as British people have enough trouble getting a house that they are willing to pay for.

The sad thing is that none of the major parties are willing to address the issues that the BNP raise, the issues that most people feel the same about across the country.

I may agree with the points the BNP raise, but I do not agree with the possible means that may be used to achieve their goals should they gain power.

Unfortunately the closet support for groups such as this will continue to grow until the real issues of immigration and restrictions on the British people are dealt with sensibly.

I am proud of the George Cross, if it offends immigrants to this country then tough. This does not make me racist, to say to people if you don't like the way we run Britain then leave is not racist.

Start by looking after our own, then we can spend time looking out for others.

Daniel said...

While it would be unwise to tar the whole of UKIP with the same brush, this story is yet another reminder of the unpleasant underbelly of the party.

Plus it serves to expose the "ridiculous egomaniac" (who has had more political parties than Roy Hattersley's had hot dinners or John Prescott's had mistresses) who seems to believe he can lead a one-man crusade to forge a 'progressive conservative' agenda for UKIP (at least until he flounces out in a few weeks time to join another party in a quest for attention) to even more ridicule... although he's doing a fine job of that himself with his pathetic spite-filled vendetta against you, Iain.

ukip tory said...

You'll have to DO better than this to make the CLASS A list.At the most recent local elections I got assentors from other parties including Labour and Tory and one assentor signed both Tory and UKIP forms forcing disqualification of the UKIP candidate(this was not wilful he suffered dementia).Worse still a lot of Tories attend UKIP meetings ------shock horror!I do hope DC's closet has been sweeped,sniff-----this is a dangerous game to play