Tuesday, August 19, 2008

5 Live & A State Funeral for Lady Thatcher

I'm doing an hour long phone-in on 5 Live's Richard Bacon programme at midnight tonight on the subject of whether Margaret Thatcher should have a State Funeral. I'm up against some lefty playwright called Ed Waugh, who wrote a play called MAGGIE'S END. Nice. It is probably just as well that he will be in the Newcastle studio.

UPDATE; A few people have commented that such a discussion is in poor taste and I shouldn't be taking part. I tend to agree that this is not an agreeable subject for polite discussion, but would you rather the whole hour was given over to Thatcher haters like Ed Waugh? I shall be vigorously defending the Good Lady's honour!

PS If you would like to phone into the show it's 0845 909693, text 85058 or email bacon@bbc.co.uk

80 comments:

Andrew Efiong said...

Please Iain, it's totally undignified to talk of her demise. This is the sort of thing that should be done in the background, in silence. Not on talk radio.

John Coles said...

Why on earth do you patronise such a programme? It's in the worst possible taste - Baroness Thatcher is alive and well, others dwelling on her mortality doesn't exactly improve her day.

Iain Dale said...

Andrew, I rather agree with you, and so far I haven't done any mdia on this issue. I shall certainly be making that point tonight, but what would you rather - they had an hour with phone calls saying how awful she was and no one there to defend her reputation?

Anonymous said...

How many people listen to 5 Dead?Since ID is so obviously right Newcastle is probably a safe distance  for the opposition.

Oliver Drew said...

I'm glad that someone will be on the radio defending Baroness Thatcher, because otherwise it could become embarrassing. I will be listening tonight, mainly because I disagree with people discussing it - imagine how she must feel, people discussing in public what will happen after her death.

However, my argument is this - even if you disliked her politics, even if you dislike her, she was the first female prime-minister of this great country and a formidable parliamentarian. She deserves a state funeral...but this discussion is not for now, she still has plenty of living left (hopefully)...and a nice peaceful retirement.

anonaLon said...

do you think she is really that bothered herself?

Tony Sharp said...

It is interesting to compare the attitudes of right and left leaning people to former political leading lights.

The left seems to be becoming increasingly shrill, personal and hateful in its critiques of conservative politicians. But there is little of this nastiness when the right critiques socialists politicians approaching or at the end of their days.

Yet all the 'nasty party' descriptions are reserved for the Conservatives. Maybe it is another example of the moral inversion of the left.

Anonymous said...

Don't go on Richard Bacon's show, he's one of the worst of the many Labour supporting 5Live stooges and his callers are often as intelligent as a Labour backbencher.

Anonymous said...

Like here or loathe her, you cannot refute her place in history. She was the first woman Prime Minister of Great Britain.

In my opinion, of course she should have a state funeral, and i'm a Lib Dem Member!

Anonymous said...

Ask him if he thinks New Labour should get a state funeral after the next election

graybo said...

I'm ambivalent about whether Baroness Thatcher should receive a state funeral or not. I suspect that, whatever she or her family may wish for, it will be a public event and the centre of a media circus.

But, if there is to be a state funeral, surely it becomes right to accord the same honour to all former PMs. So, the question should be this: should we have state funerals for former PMs? Should we have state funerals for Thatcher, Major, Blair and Brown? Once you bring the last two into the question (particularly the last one), I suspect that those who support the idea of a state occasion may start to change their tune.

Andrew Efiong said...

I suppose if you refused Iain, they'd find a Rent-a-Tory who is perhaps less measured and sensitive than you.

Perhaps you can ask Richard Bacon how he intends to bury his mother?

verity's lovechild said...

I'm all in favour of Thatcher's funeral being privately funded (e.g. by public subscription), since I'm certain that many of those who benefited from her championing liberty would be more than willing to give her the send-off she deserves. It would also simultaneously silence and infuriate the leftist cretins who insist on whining about the prospect of such a funeral, while advocating ever more tax-and-spend.

Simple Tory said...

Iain,
The BBC and particularly 5-Live are increasingly and very regretably going down market with their phone-in discusions.
However, if they do insist on this level of disrespect, I back you fully for putting the right argument on air later.
Graybo does make a good point though in having state funerals for ALL ex. PMs. This final honour, regardless of who they are or even their record in office, would represent the last respects of our nation.
S.T.

verity's lovechild said...

"state funerals for ALL ex. PMs."

So that they can continue to rip us off even after they're dead? No thanks.

Richard Nabavi said...

Iain - "A few people have commented that such a discussion is in poor taste and I shouldn't be taking part."

They are right. The excuse that if you don't, others will, is not valid.

Iain Dale said...

Well that's profound. You make a statement and then don't bother justifying it. What would you suggest happens then - just leave it to the left? Yeah, because that would really help, wouldn't it?

Bernie Gudgeon said...

Distasteful it may be, but refusal to take part and balance the argument only perpetuates Guardianista knee-jerk garbage. Give them stick - and don’t be too polite about it.

Unsworth said...

Isn't the whole point of this some sort of Faux Controversy to boost 5 Live's awful ratings?

Anyway, as you've decided to grace them with your presence, perhaps you should get your retaliation in first. Ask Ed Waugh who out of today's left-wingers he thinks merits a State Funeral. That'll be interesting.

Maybe you could suggest the truly illustrious Brown - only without any unnecessary delay, of course. At present sometime early next week would suit my diary quite nicely. Execution on Tower Green followed immediately by full Westminster Abbey ceremonial? I've got the whole of Tuesday free.

Wallenstein said...

A state funeral would be a disaster... can you imagine the chaos? Every hard-left group in the country will make an effort to disrupt it, and it will cost an absolute fortune to police.

It's not a case of reputation or otherwise - everyone knows what she did, some approve and some hate her for it.

A state funeral seems designed to provoke, and given that she'll be past caring it seems like it's looking to create controversy for the sake of it.

Remember... part of Thatcher's legacy is 11yrs of New Labour and a Tory party who are only just coming back to a semblance of electability. Crumbs... even the Tories can't decide what to do with Thatcher's legacy, so what chance does the nation as a whole have?

Better a quiet private send-off without a burden on the public purse, with the dignity anyone deserves at their funeral.

PhilC said...

They're going to discuss whether you're on it or not Iain; so if you think you can make a good job of it then go ahead.
I think many of the people who have commented on this thread though (and by implication yourself with that glib bit about 'just as well he's in Newcastle') don't quite get the depth of feeling that Thatcher arises.
She is loathed by a generation of people who saw their livelihoods ripped away in the 1980s. Newcastle is one of those places.
You can argue about the hows and whys and facts and figures - but that strength of feeling remains. Simply repeating mantras about 'bringing unions to heel' and 'restoring the UK economy' aren't sufficient because it's not politics, it's personal.
I think that partly explains why some people on the left like this topic - there is vicarious thrill to discussing the death of someone who is a focus for a lot of anger
I don't think this feeling bears any comparison with the passing disgust many have for the present government.
Have you seen or read Ed Waugh's play (have any of your readers?). He came up with this interesting plot long before the state funeral story broke and the play isn't just Maggie-bashing - well, not all of it;).

Anonymous said...

Iain, you are an idiot.

Colin said...

You should do the show Iain. And you should take the opportunity to remind people that whatever they think Baroness Thatcher was; She never conspired and lied to start an illegal war.

judith said...

Graybo makes a very valid point, and the situation should surely be resolved by a private funeral, with some kind of formal Thanksgiving 6 weeks later, which would surely be largely dependent on whether a Tory Govt was in power. Otherwise it could be the same kind of Thanksgiving service that is given to those of special merit but organised on a private basis.

The thought of Bliar getting a State funeral makes me sick.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

I'm in two minds over this.
One part is saying she is only a little old lady, forgive and forget.
And the other...Be ready with a sharpened stake and a sledgehammer.

Just in case.

Anonymous said...

"It's going to cost 3 million pounds. 3 million pounds! For that you could give everyone in Scotland a shovel and we'd dig a hole so deep that you could hand her over to Satan personally."

Frankie Boyle

trevorsden said...

The easy position to take is that politicians should not have a state funeral.

I admire Mrs T but do not see why she should have a state funeral. PMs are not presidents - heads of states.

The whole issue of her achievements are quite divorced from her funeral arrangements.

PMs get a memorial service - even Gordon Brown will get one, even though THAT would be thoroughly undeserved.

Anonymous said...

I echo several other posters. This seems a very odd programme to make indeed. Even disrespectful.

ak23566 said...

Graybo at 6.17pm has a limited understanding of history. Just because Baroness Thatcher may be given a State Funeral does not mean every subsequent Prime Minister should as of "right".

No-one suggested that Harold Wilson, Anthony Eden or Alex Douglas Home should be so honoured just because Churchill had been before them.

The question that must be addressed is whether Baroness Thatcher made such an outstanding contribution to our nation that a State Funeral can be justified.

Many from the Left would argue that Mrs Thatcher's governments were divisive and caused damage to the fabric of society, and therefore she should not be honoured. This is poppycock. Many could argue that Churchill's attack on Chamberlain post Norway, the isolation of the pacifist wing of the Labour Party and the jingoistic war rhetoric were also divisive. History has judged differently, as I believe it will (and already has) in the case of Margaret Thatcher.

Admittedly, Thatcher was not a great “war leader” in the sense of Churchill. Not even her most ardent supporters could compare Galtieri to Hitler. But Thatcher fought another enemy, just as pernicious and damaging to our freedom, the "British Disease".

She turned around the post-war consensus of a nation in retreat, the "steady management of decline". She created a new economic order and was the first leader to not just halt, but to reverse the ratchet of Socialism which had been strangling British liberty and economic freedoms for 30+ years.

Mrs Thatcher set us free from the dead hand of Socialism just as Churchill liberated Europe from the dead hand of National Socialism. Privatisation, low taxes and the principle of personal responsibility are now the benchmarks of every government.

Her legacy still dominates geo-political thinking 20 years after she left office. The world over, leaders and hopefuls seek to reflect in her glory and legacy.

I do no subscribe to the view that she and President Reagan single-handedly brought down Communism, but she certainly contributed to its defeat more than any before her. She kept the flames of hope burning in the hearts of Eastern Europeans and then provided real practical help to the emerging democratic governments that followed the end of the Cold War. Go to any former Eastern Bloc country and ask people what they think of Mrs Thatcher - and you will be left in no doubt about the strength of her legacy.

Does Mrs Thatcher deserve a State Funeral? Too bloody right she does. She deserves every honour this country can give her. She was a giant amongst pygmies and we won't see the likes of her again.

Palsington Winthorpe-Smythe said...

Thatcher, or El Thatch as she liked to be known according to a senior Tory source was all for cutting back on public expenditure when she was PM, but now expects us to foot the bill to chuck her in the ground!?

Not in my name!

Disgruntled
Outwith Middle England

Anonymous said...

PhilC @ 7:46 PM

"... She is loathed by a generation of people who saw their livelihoods ripped away in the 1980s. Newcastle is one of those places."

I happen to know Newcastle rather well and an old couple there who is a Labour supporter voted for Thatcher because she let them buy their council house. They admit that they then went straight back to voting Labour and now hate Labour because the value of their house is falling.

I think that rather sums up a lot of older Labour voters. They vote Labour because they expect wealth transfers and for no other reason. That is why they are so upset with Gordon over 10p tax and inflation eating away at their state pension. MPs in the region know this and are getting it told to them on the doorsteps.

Its pure economics - mass Labour voters expect to be given money by teh state provided by taxes on 'rich people'. Loo, at what the unions are saying. More tax on the rich.

Anonymous said...

Whatever your political views - Margaret Thatcher must be classed as one of the foremost post-war British Prime Ministers and merits a state funeral on several levels and not just because she was the first female Prime Minister. The "left" will always hate her but people should remember exactly what the state of Britain was when she came to power in 1979.

The country was ungovernable and under the thumb of far-left union agitators and wild-cat unofficial strikes(the "Winter of Discontent" wasn't a right wing fictional plot - it happened - I remember the piles of rubbish and the unburied dead); Britain was regarded as the "sick man of europe", the miners union had defeated a democratically elected government barely 5 years before; they had previously put paid to Barbar Castle's modest attempt at union reforms("In place of Strife"); the country was regarded as a laughing stock and regularly described as "the Sick Man of Europe" and the "British Disease" (aka strike) was routinely quoted abroad;the country was bankrupt with Dennis Healey and the Callaghan Government having to go cap in hand to the IMF.

Margaret Thatcher wasn't perfect but she revolutionised and yes saved the country from the disaster that was the Labour government and the unions;she overalled the moribund state sector and the country profited massively from that.The "Iron Lady" was known and I suspect a little feared around the world and Britain's reputation rode high on her coat tails.Unlike our present Prime Minister who is largely ignored by the World.
Just think exactly what the country would have been under the likes of Michael Foot or Arthur Scargill.

However much the "left" try to denigrate her reputation Margaret Thatcher will be remembered long after the likes of Wilson;Callaghan;Foot;Benn,Blair and Brown are long dead.For those reasons she deserves her state funeral and people should stop their weasel criticism of a truly Great British Patriot and when she eventually dies she should be accorded the full panoply of a state funeral and there are very few living politicians of to-day, of all parties, that will deserve that accolade.

Anonymous said...

Re my post 9.00pm

I do of course know that several of those Labour politicians quoted are actually already dead and my syntax was a little imprecise

Labour Matters said...

Will she be lying in state? I know a few miners who'll be happy to see her dead and will laugh in her face.

Distasteful? Sure. But you better believe it's true.

(Or in other words, a state funeral won't be pretty or dignified.)

Iain Dale's Rabbit said...

Iain - if this is what you have to do for money, you should ask yourself if its really worth it.

Iain Dale said...

I don't HAVE to do anything I have chosen to. And I have also chosen to waive my fee, as I don't feel comfortable about being paid to talk about someone's funeral.

Kate said...

This subject has been totally done to death as a radio phone-in since it was first raised a few months back (no pun intended, but I can't think of a better phrase!). I've switched off both LBC and 5 Live on more than one occasion during phone-ins on the topic.

It's both a dull and distasteful way to justify a discussion on the Thatcher era.

I agree you're as well to participate Iain, but please do make the point it's not a dignified discussion to be having.

Alex said...

State funerals should be mostly for heads of state - even lesser royals such as the Queen Mum get less than the full state funeral. They been given to non-heads of state only 10 times, and in my opinion that is 5 times too many:

Sir Philip Sidney (1586)
Isaac Newton (1727)
Admiral Nelson (1806)
Arthur Duke of Wellington (1852)
Viscount Palmerston (1865)
Charles Darwin (1882)
William Gladstone (1898)
Earl Roberts of Kandahar (1914)
Edward Carson (1935)
Sir Winston Churchill (1965)

I would have gone for just Newton, Nelson, Wwllington, Roberts and Churchill.

Once in a hundred years sounds about right and Lady Thatcher, whatever we think of her isn't in the same league. Bigging her up may sound the right thing to do, but in my view the whole discussions cheapens the notion of a State Funeral, which should be a very rare honour. If you have to debate whether it is appropriate then it probably isn't.

Anonymous said...

i heard that they wanted to cremate her but she put her foot down and said "the lady's not for burning"

Wrinkled Weasel said...

I realise i have been too busy to catch up with blogging and the news for a couple of days but, is she dead?

Anonymous said...

A simple solution would be to say that Prime Ministers who served for 10 or more years should get a state funeral?

Anonymous said...

Good luck Iain, I don't envy you but im sure you will fight the Thatcherite corner impeccably without resorting to cheap shots as Im sure the lefty will!

Anonymous said...

"A simple solution would be to say that Prime Ministers who served for 10 or more years should get a state funeral?"

Blair getting a state funeral? I'm off if that ever happens.

Merlin said...

"The country was ungovernable and under the thumb of far-left union agitators and wild-cat unofficial strikes(the "Winter of Discontent" wasn't a right wing fictional plot - it happened - I remember the piles of rubbish and the unburied dead); Britain was regarded as the "sick man of europe", the miners union had defeated a democratically elected government barely 5 years before; they had previously put paid to Barbar Castle's modest attempt at union reforms("In place of Strife"); the country was regarded as a laughing stock and regularly described as "the Sick Man of Europe" and the "British Disease" (aka strike) was routinely quoted abroad;the country was bankrupt with Dennis Healey and the Callaghan Government having to go cap in hand to the IMF."

Do you think you could get any more clich├ęs in there?

Anyway, I feel I ought to point out to Iain (and everyone) that the phone number is, in fact, 0500 909693, rather than 0845 909693, as is currently listed on the blog entry.

Jeremy Jacobs said...

I would trash the post and the comments Iain if I were you.

Richard Nabavi said...

Iain, you said, in response to my post:

"Well that's profound. You make a statement and then don't bother justifying it. What would you suggest happens then - just leave it to the left? Yeah, because that would really help, wouldn't it?"

I don't understand this. If something is in bad taste, you can simply stay out of it. If some people are so lacking in decorum that they are prepared to have a public slanging match about the funeral arrangements for a lady who is alive and well, you don't have to join in.

This has got absolutely nothing to do with Lady Thatcher's incomparable record; the same would be true for anyone, from the most humble to the greatest, political enemy or political ally.

If certain lefties, obsessed as they are with their imagined grievances, want to show how low they are prepared to stoop, you could have let them get on with it.

Iain Dale said...

No, I don't actually. I can go on and defend her honour against those who wish to impugn it.

Anonymous said...

Say what you like about Lady Thatch, but she could sure thatch a good roof . . .LOL

LOL

LOL

Thatch.

Get it?

Thatch . . .Thatcher.

Yeah, you're there now.

LOL

Auntie Flo' said...

I'm astounded that this unbelievably callous discussion is taking place on blogs and in the media. I'm no fan of Mrs T, but if I was her I'd sue the lot of you.

It is one thing to discuss the subject in general terms of whether any prime minister should receive a state funeral, quite another to enter into specifics.

In general terms, no prime minister - aside from Winston Churchill, who was a special case - should receive a state funeral because the snouts in the trough are usually hated (some more so than others)by the time they leave office.

What next, a state funeral for Blair and Brown? No way!

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Iain, you wish to defend her honour?
Do it in an East End of Glasgow pub then.

AfricanMum said...

What sort of person talks of laughing in the face of another human being at their funeral? One it's really in bad taste to go on about how someone should be buried while they're still alive.
And Thatcher will always be Britain's 1st female PM, so she should be honoured as such. And anyway, what did Thatcher do? Did she line people up and shoot them? No. She created an economy where you could no longer get money for nothing. How come people in the South were ok? Why didn't they roll over and die like some people in other parts of the country. I didn't agree with all Thatcher did but in this world you adapt or die. Simple. She did a lot to smash up the class system. That has to be a good thing. I was in Nigeria for most of her reign, and she was quite popular over there. We understood her message simply. Work hard, get rewards.

Anonymous said...

I think she should have a state funeral.

The sooner the better.

Tom FD said...

So the collapse of Northern Rock was Thatcher's fault? Well I never. Who is this idiot?

verity's lovechild said...

Iain, am listening. You're doing a great job, but seem to be surrounded by cretins. Between the twit blaming Thatcher for Northern Rock, and the dipstick (who you rightly treated with contempt) babbling about Lord Carrington's resignation, I'm surprised you have any patience left.

Also, aren't playwrights supposed to be articulate? The chap on the show can barely string two words together.

verity's lovechild said...

OK, the playwright is now sounding unhinged. "I'M WARNING YOU! I'M TELLING YOU!"

How amusing.

verity's lovechild said...

Since no-one else appears to be live-commenting this extraordinary radio event (perhaps they didn't imagine you'd remove moderation, or perhaps they're too busy swinging baseball bats at their radios) some thoughts:

1. This programme is very poorly moderated. Callers are being allowed to talk too much, and the debate is - Iain's comments excluded - degenerating into a "yah booh" match.

2. The playwright is still talking rubbish. Kids can't buy houses because Thatcher sold council houses? What? She was a "horrible, horrible person" who got nothing right. What insight.

3. Now we are hearing the discussion interrupted so that we can hear texts about people who are making Weetabix boxes and crocheting baby clothes. Gosh, Radio 5 Live is worse than I thought.

4. Loved you smacking down the silly apartheid caller with the citation of Nelson Mandela. Brilliant. Poor man had nothing to say... "yeah, but... she was self-serving!" Right.

Anonymous said...

"I happen to know Newcastle rather well and an old couple there who is a Labour supporter voted for Thatcher because she let them buy their council house. They admit that they then went straight back to voting Labour and now hate Labour because the value of their house is falling."

This merely highlights the stupidity of the average voter irrespective of which part they support...

gunnar said...

Iain,

Just listened to you on 5 Live.

You said that Thatcher did not call Mandela a terrorist.

Here is a Times article that states exactly that:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article622446.ece

"During the Government of Margaret Thatcher — who denounced Mr Mandela, Mr Mbeki and the ANC as terrorists — Mr Mbeki met about 20 members of the Afrikaner ruling elite at Mells Castle, near Bath, for highly secret talks from 1987 to 1990, with the blessing of Mrs Thatcher and British Intelligence."

Is the Times perhaps wrong?

patronising, racist coverage works for me said...

Iain
I'm surprised that there is enough time on Radio 5 for such a debate.
On this, the Morn of our first Gold Medal (worth celebrating by the BBC) at the Olympics.

rob's uncle said...

I have no quarrel with giving her a State Funeral [if that is what Sir Mark, that well respected pillar of the Establishment, wishes for his mother] just so long as the day is also made a Public Holiday [Iron Lady Day!] - so that those who wish to dance upon her grave can organise street parties, etc.

On reflection, I am sure that Sir M will settle for a well attended and joyful memorial service at St Margaret's and a private funeral for her friends and family.

The notion of a 'State Funeral' for a partisan politician is grotesque: have you no idea what people who don't agree with you think and feel? Hve you evr met any such people?

If you wish to become an MP you need to spend much more time on the doorstep and much less time gossiping at Westminster.

Talk to Vince Cable, for example, about how much there is to be learnt about how to be a successful politician by going from door to door and patiently listening to whatever boring tales you are told.

Laurence Boyce said...

“[Mandela] will tell you that [Thatcher] put more pressure on South Africa to end its Apartheid regime than any other world leader.”

As John McEnrore would say . . .

Oscar said...

Robs Uncle,

No.
Dancing upon somebody's grave is morally grotesque. Having a state funeral is at most irritating for some.

Re Vince Cable, its thanks to his Mr Bean jibe in Westminster that most people know who he is - not by the magic of his determined doorstepping.

Iain Dale said...

Rob, you wrote "If you wish to become an MP you need to spend much more time on the doorstep and much less time gossiping at Westminster.

Talk to Vince Cable, for example, about how much there is to be learnt about how to be a successful politician by going from door to door and patiently listening to whatever boring tales you are told."

Please don't bother patronising me with such crap. I have probably knocked on more doors over the years than you have had hot dinners.

Ron Todd said...

We should have two requirements for a state funeral.

It should be based on what a person did not who their parents were.

The majority of the population should agree that it is deserved.

The second of these would rule out lady Thatcher.

the first would rule out most of the royal family

Arkangel said...

I think this is utterly tasteless. Whether it's right for you to defend her or not, the lady is still very much alive.
Why not talk about burying Gordoom instead...that would be more apposite?

Anonymous said...

"© Iain Dale. Some Rights Reserved. Comments posted by readers of this blog do not necessarily reflect the views of Iain Dale"

Iain, don't you wish they did sometimes?!

The Remittance Man said...

It's probably too late now, but I'm against giving politicians such honours however deserving they may be. (I include the naming of warships in this category).

In things like this, once the precedent is set politicians have the habit of lowering the qualifying standard and what was once meant as a signal honour soon becomes a natural right.

Mrs T's achievements may merit the lady a state funeral in the eyes of many, but can we say the same for Tony Blair or Gordon Brown? If Mrs T were to be given the full monty you can bet the latter pair plus assorted other non-entities will be demanding the same, simply on the grounds of "impartiality".

Honour will be replaced by the dictates of pc.

Anyway, this whole discussion is academic. Mrs T's send off when it comes should go however the lady herself wishes it to go. I suspect she'd opt for something a little less ostentatious than a full blown state funeral, followed by interment next to Dennis.

Q.H. Flack said...

I am sorry that Iain Dale subscribes to these lies about Thatcher.
She is a racist and a facist (your garbage about Mandela last night is beneath contempt, she supported Botha, invested in South Africa, and still believes in the superiority of the white race. As the Times quotation shows, you are simply wrong.) She endorsed the murder of Catholics in Northern Ireland, the myth of her saving Britian from wicked unions is a whitewashing of her naive belief in unmitigated capitalism. She beievied in sacking people, in smashing unions, in using the police to enforce her policies, in promoting the class system and in greed for greed's sake. She, like those who support her, was small minded, petty, and full of the political understanding opf a drunk Uk football crowd.
Reagan, whom you also seem over fond of, was a doddering and senile actor who had no idea what he was about. You forget Iran Contra. And you and your fellow Thatcher lovers endorse Putin's massacres as 'freedom'.
Grow up and learn some history. and please tell Verity to use contraception, the drivel posted in the name of 'Verity's Lovechild' is a very poor way of pretending that you have support.

Anonymous said...

I agree that there is absolutely no need for you to lend your support to this undignified broadcast. Lady Thatcher's legacy speaks for itself and you won't be influencing anyone's view whatever you say. Those who do not wish to experience an hour of phone calls saying how awful she was can switch off - and impact the ratings accordingly. Just rise above it Iain. I am sure Maggie would.

verity's lovechild said...

@ Q.H. Flack

she is a racist and a facist [sic]

...who believed in "unmitigated capitalism"? Do you even know what fascism is? Or were you just pulling pejoratives out of your rectum in the hope that one might be applicable?

Anonymous said...

Just the thought of her passing has me reaching for the champagne.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

"people should remember exactly what the state of Britain was when she came to power in 1979."

Yes, when we had an economy with industry and manufacturing. Lots of very serious problems, true. Her 'solution' left us with City spivs and lots of problems.

The proper Thatcherite ending would be to save public money and throw her down one of the coal mines she smashed.

Islington Neil said...

Regardless of whether this should be aired in public or not... I did happen to catch the discussion on Richard Bacon's programme - and wd like to say that Iain showed remarkable restraint in dealing with the ill-informed nonsense that his opposing guest was spouting. Certainly if the segment I caught was anything to go by Iain was calmly running rings around him.

Little Black Sambo said...

I read that there is also something called a Parliamentary Funeral granted to prominent parliamentarians. Perhaps that would be more suitable for a former PM?

Q.H. Flack said...

Dear Verity's Lovechild.
The unloved Lady Thatcher gave her full support to General Pinochet, who clearly believed in superior races, despised democracy, and murdered his oponents. Glad you and your kind endorse this. She is a Fascist (sorry for earlier misspelling) and an unrepentant one. And she sold nationalized industries at a pitiful price. And she repeatedly lied to the Commmons

verity's lovechild said...

She is a Fascist (sorry for earlier misspelling) and an unrepentant one.

Given that she spent her entire career combating statism, how exactly was she a fascist? You've said she supported Pinochet (who was not, incidentally, a racist); right. That's geopolitics. Pinochet made the protection of the Falklands possible. Would you call Winston Churchill a Communist for making a wartime alliance with Stalin?

And she sold nationalized industries at a pitiful price.

She sold them for what the open market considered them to be worth, and in so doing introduced competition and professionalism to sectors long dominated by a culture of sloth and entitlement.

And she repeatedly lied to the Commmons

Evidence?

Q.H. Flack said...

Just to remind you all

The new files, released under the Freedom of Information Act, show that Tim Bell, now a peer, had an informant within the TUC, the trade union leaders working with the miners.

During the strike, Mr Bell, a Saatchi and Saatchi advertising executive, was advising the prime minister after making his name as Mrs Thatcher's chief image-maker.

He had been hired by the employers' organisation, the National Coal Board (NCB), to make its public relations effort more effective.

The former prime minister has admitted she came closest to defeat in October 1984, when another union, the pit deputies' organisation, Nacods, came within 24 hours of joining the striking miners.

It would have strengthened the position of the miners hugely, but the government and its supporters desperately put pressure on Nacods members to keep working.

With information about Nacods' intentions at a premium, an official note shows that Ian McGregor, the head of the NCB, was told that "Tim Bell called. His informant at the TUC has confirmed what you said, ie, They are trying to stop Nacods from settling and they are trying to rewrite the peace formula to accommodate Scargill."

The files also show that copies of internal NUM memos were passed within days of being written to senior NCB executives.

One memo by Henry Richardson, the leader of the union in Nottingham-shire, gave advice to strikers about picketing. Another had been written by officials in Yorkshire.

Downing Street has blocked a Guardian request under the Freedom of Information Act to see some of its files on the strike, because they contain information "directly or indirectly supplied" by the security and intelligence agencies.

Stella Rimington, the former head of MI5, has admitted that the agency targeted union leaders during the strike, arguing that they were using the dispute to bring down the elected government.

Sources at GCHQ have said that it was ordered by Mrs Thatcher to track the movements of union officials and the transfer of funds.

Roger Windsor, the chief executive of the NUM during the strike, has been accused of being an MI5 agent, an allegation he denies.

The disclosed documents underline how senior he was: in January 1985, he was one of only two NUM officials who met the coal board to discuss a possible resumption of talks to solve the dispute.

Police officers have said Special Branch infiltrated a spy - codenamed Silver Fox - into Mr Scargill's inner circle, with one officer saying the information "beat the strike, there's no doubt about that".

Q.H. Flack said...

Margaret Thatcher lied to the commons on 6th September 1990 and over the Gibralter murders.

trevorsden said...

Flack ---- your a pillock

trevorsden said...

"Iain, you wish to defend her honour?
Do it in an East End of Glasgow pub then." -- he would come out with fewer cuts and bruises than someone trying to defend Gordon brown and his 10p tax increase.

"What sort of person talks of laughing in the face of another human being at their funeral?" -- Socialists