Thursday, March 26, 2009

Left Wing Blogger Will Give Up If I Win Orwell Prize

My shortlisting for the Orwell Prize has caused apoplexy in some quarters of the left. Justin McKeating, who masquerades as Tim Ireland's 'mini me', has repeated his pledge to give up blogging if I win. I'd love to think this was a promise rather than a meaningless threat, but we know how good the left are at keeping their promises.

124 comments:

Oldrightie said...

Well, that would be an immense loss!

Oliver Drew said...

Bit bitter of him isn't it. Cannot abide it when people cannot see past political differences to see when a blog is good or a blog is not good.

Thatsnews said...

God bless you sir! May you win a famous victory!

Mind you, you do know that he would come back as an anagram of his name. Which happens to be
"Nickname jug tits"

John Moss said...

The "Left" are incapable of "grace".

Tonight in the Royal Dock in Newham, I hope the conservatives have won a seat on the Council for the first time in 18 years.


Going round the ward today, Labour activists sneered and chipped and even ignored conservatives, who were indulging in the usual polling day, all-in-it-together camerarderie.

There used to be a recognition that we all wanted to make people's lives better, we just disagreed about how. Actually, I'm not so sure. Since I got involved, Labour activists have first preened, then sneered, then booed, then hissed. Now they are just cross and upset because their side isn't winning anymore. They may even try to take their ball home soon.

Frankly, it's pathetic and the attitude of... whatsisname... is typical.

Oh, I really do want to see Gordon Brown's failure visited on the whole socialist movement. I really do want to see the end of organised socialist politics in the UK. They are wrong, they have always been wrong and they will always be wrong - and they are wrong precisely because of the attitude displayed by ... whatsisname ... and all those Democrat movie stars who were going to leave the US in 2004 if Bush won again... Did they?

je reste ma valise!

Dick Puddlecote said...

Win it Iain, then we can have some fun. He's been going, what, 5 years?

Dick Puddlecote said...

@John Moss: To be fair, Andrew Lloyd-Webber and Paul Daniels said they'd leave the country if Labour got in in 1997. They didn't.

If Labour get in in 2010, though, I wouldn't be surprised to see a mass exodus.

Events dear boy, events said...

If you don't win I will be amazed. I am just so looking forward to Draper's reaction!

Werner Patels said...

Good, let him fade away ...

Bond007 said...

No-one reads his blog, so it doesn't matter whether he stays or goes

Tim said...

The impression that I get is that Justin is of the opinion that what you do is so artless and so far removed from anything that George Orwell could be expected to respect that your winning this prize would defy all reason.

Therefore, the risk is warranted, especially as if the greatly improbable came to be, many would lose the will to live, never mind blog.

Incidentally, cheers for finding the space to have a go at another blogger when you clearly didn't have room at the inn for anything to do with Patrick Mercer and/or Glen Jenvey. Nice priorities.

Iain Dale said...

Fact: He had a go at me.
Fact: I didn't have a go at him. I pointed out what he had promised to do.

King Athelstan said...

Typical Liebour, start an argument then blame the other side, turds to a man the lot of them.

Manfarang said...

The Orwell Prize?
Which of the following-
a)a cuppa in a Burmese teashop
b)a pint in the Red Lion Willingdon
c)a packet of cigarettes in
Catalonia.
d)a day's fishing at the end of
Wigan Pier.

JuliaM said...

"..who masquerades as Tim Ireland's 'mini me'.."

?

Always figured Ireland was his own 'mini me' frankly...

Rush-is-Right said...

I've never heard of the bugger, but from his photo I think he's Des Lynham in disguise!

Cato said...

Who is the twat anyway? Never heard of him. Shan't miss him.

DespairingLiberal said...

I don't think much of young Derek normally, but for once I have some sympathy for him.

This blog (Iain Dale) is not and never has been what it is purported to be by those media friends of Iain who constantly parade him on the Telly, falsely boosting his credibility.

Those of us who are regulars on this blog and have followed it for some years see two Iain Dales - one who is independent of the main Tory apparatus, sensible, moderate and reasonable. This is the one appearing on TV. The other is the blog person. This Dale is excessive, rumour-mongering, reactionary, hostile and aggressive to those who disagree, spins for leading Tory policies and individuals and is deeply embedded in the Tory strategy.

* The media coverage implies: Iain is an independent blogger.

This is not true. Iain is a Tory politician and his stories frequently enhance, mirror or even (in some notable cases) lead and generate Tory spin lines and official manouvres. Many of his snippets bear all the hallmarks of Tory HQ-inspired diversion and distraction stories.

* Use of Iain Dale and frequent mention of him on BBC and other major outlets implies that Iain Dale is a distinguished, leading figure who would not descend to the gutter.

And yet frequently we see this blog (less so than Guido Fawkes but nevertheless to some considerable extent) used as an obvious prompt-fodder for extremist racism and homophobia of the right. Far from being some kind of sensible moderate (his pose), Iain Dale is a died-in-the-wool unreconstructed Essex Thatcherite bully-boy with Daily Express views and a tendancy to act as cheer leader for extreme libertarians and those racists who simply pose as libertarians.

* The media coverage implies that Iain Dale is fair-minded and runs his blog as if it were some sort of public platform for debate.

This is simply not true. Iain Dale has very frequently suppressed comment he does not like, but more important, he sometimes lays in with the most violent and unpleasant language against anyone even slightly disagreeing with his points. Yet at the same time he proudly repeats that he will not allow the sort of nasty comment or swearing on his blog that is common elsewhere, something he himself remains free to engage in.

I put it to the Orwell Prize people that Iain Dale is not a fit and proper person to receive such an award and he should not have been short-listed for it.

Clive said...

Once again Iain, time to invest in a dictionary, or at least make an effort to choose the correct words (assuming you understand their meaning - nihilist spring to mind?).

Justin isn't apoplectic, but this blog is so far from what Orwell would consider worthy writing that I share his feelings of almost exhausted resignation. Go to the Prize website and click on the "Values of the Orwell Prize" link. Right at the top, in big, bold letters - "What I have most wanted to do throughout the past ten years is to make political writing into an art."

This blog is popular sure, but art? Give me a break. If you win, it'll be a triumph for narcissistic hubris and popularism over artful word craft and thoughtful writing.

Don't take it personally though, most of the opprobrium is laid at the door of the Prize committee who have betrayed Orwell's intent. You're just the blogger and editor who's unlikely to ever produce any work of literary merit, but who'll chase an award regardless.

Justin said...

Oh Iain, smooth as ever. 'I didn't have a go at him'. No, you just let your own mini-mes do it for you.

Where did the love go? Oh, that's right, you decided you didn't love me any more the second I dared to call you on something you did.

And this isn't an empty promise. You can take it to the bank. I will quit blogging in disgust if your meagre values and mediocre talents win the Orwell Prize for blogging.

JuliaM said...

Which blog is DesperateLiberal reading?

Because from that description in his rant, it sure isn't this one.

Clive/Justin - would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Half The Story said...

I don't get this.

Iain is a blog I read more than every day as he updates it alot, and in fact is almost a one man newspaper of stuff.

Why the antipathy from the fowl curdler?

Ps I even read his west ham blog and I am a spurs fan.....

Plato said...

Eh?

I've just refreshed this page to check that I'm not suffering from delusions.

What blog are you reading Mr Liberal?

And Mr Yoghurt - isn't it time to move on from a spat with Iain that is dated '2007/02/09'?

Clive said...

JuliamM, no cheese thanks, I get plenty of that from this blog. Some artful writing would be nice though.

Half the Story, the issue lies more with the Orwell Trust than with Iain. Read "Politics and the English Language" then consider whether the Orwell Trust have done George's legacy any favours.

Dual Citizen said...

Rush-is-Right said...
I've never heard of the bugger, but from his photo I think he's Des Lynham in disguise!


You were close. It's Dickie Davis from ITV's World of Sport!

Salmondnet said...

Never thought I'd care who won any prize for blogging, but I now really hope you win Iain.

Chris Paul said...

You'll not be winning though Iain, so it's meaningless! As you acknowledged yourself you have scraped into the last six and unfairly at the expense of Hopi and Tom! I think that's what you said anyway?

Houdini said...

Why are you worried about McKeating anyway? He is yet another Draper clone who licks up the party line while proclaiming he is his own man.

Typical Labour and notice how they come on to whine like little girls, all full of self importance and righteous indignation.

Houdini said...

For all the cretins crying over what Orwell would have liked...there isn't a single blog that he would like probably as we are all to one degree or another in thrall to Big Brother, which is why we are here. Orwell wouldn't even have liked the thought of giving a prize through the establishment you cretins. How many here are anything but establishment stooges? Especially Labour ones like Chicken Yoghurt and Bloggerheads.

Stop whining, and if you had any credibility McKeating, you Labour apparatchik, you would delete your blog and stop now.

Orwell wouldn't like it indeed....

Houdini said...

Only Chris Paul could say that Iain Dale scraped into the short list for an ORWELL prize at the expense of NEW LABOUR MP Tom Harris...that must be archived as a classic, and this is the type of idiot who claim Orwell would turn in his grave at the thought of Iain winning!! The irony!!

Clive said...

Why or why does everyone judge Orwell purely on the basis of 1984? Has no one on here ever read "Politics and the English Language", "Down and Out in Paris and London", "Homage to Catalonia" or "Keep the Aspidistra Flying"?

Oscar Miller said...

Actually Chris Paul, Iain made a typically gallant comment about Tom Harris and Hopi Sen in the best tradition of courtesy and comradeship. You of course turn this to malign and narrow-minded political point scoring. After Draper's revolting performance yesterday can there be any doubt that Labour are the true nasty party?

Tim said...

Iain: Fact is, you did not link to his post on the matter, you featured a twittering and you didn't even link to *that*.

This follows a pattern (that you have stuck to for years) of being so petty and precious that only your side of an argument is permitted exposure on your website.

And instead of presenting any reasonable argument you have instead without basis declared Justin to be a mindless drone and projected onto him a general judgment of the left based on something you present no evidence for to prove (a) that it's true, and (b) that it applies to Justin

You then stand back and let the restless minions (that you deliberately keep in a constant state of agitation) have a go at him, again, with nothing judgement based on their own prejudice... some, while accusing Justin of the same bloody thing.

It was a cheap and dishonest shot that shows you up for the small man that you are.

And Iain? All politics aside, the only art to what you do lies in the many shameless ways in which you cheat your readers.


Houdini: Establishment stooges, you say? Prove it, mouth.

Sim-O said...

Win it Iain, then we can have some fun. He's been going, what, 5 years?
WTF has that got to do with anything, Dick?

How many here are anything but establishment stooges? Especially Labour ones like Chicken Yoghurt and Bloggerheads.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha and ha!

Fuck me, you should be on stage, Houdini.

Thatsnews said...

As I have pointed out before: Despairing? Yes. Liberal? Not in any meaningful sense of the word.

It must be hard to hear what DL has to say on the 'phone, as one would imagine there would always be a dreadful whining noise on the line.

And for those of you woho do not like Iain's blog: "Read do not it" Please re-arrange these words to make a well known phrase or saying.

I mean, that's not rocket science, is it?

Iain Dale said...

Always a pleasure to welcome Tim Ireland and his band of merry men back to the blog.

Difficult to know where to start.

1. Didn't know he had done a post on this.
2. I'd have thought a screenshot was proof enough of what he was saying.
3. Only my argument is presented? Yeah, cos I 've deleted yours, Clive's and Justin's comment, haven't I?
4. He is a mindless drone.
5. I didn't have a go at him. I reported a fact. A fact he has confirmed in his comment above.
6. As the master of cheap shots, I will take that as a compliment coming from you.

Could you possibly be sore that you didn't even make the longlist, let alone the shortlist?

I have never pretended to be the world's greatest writer. Alix Mortimer, in particular, from the shortlist is streets ahead of me in that regard, and I freely admit it.

What I do know though, is that the judges consider me to be a better writer than you. And that is what really irks you, isn't it?

Have a great day.

Sim-O said...

"What I do know though, is that the judges consider me to be a better writer than you."

Iain, surely for that argument to work, the judges need to have picked you over Tim, which was plainly impossible.

Seeing as Tim didn't put his hand up when the organisers asked 'Who wants an award?' that line doesn't quite work.

Tim said...

1. So you're going to have a go at another blogger over a twitter without so much as checking his site first. Right.
2. But you don't link to it or anywhere else where you might be forced to face a conversation that you don't host. As usual.
3. See above.
4. And a typical leftist who doesn't keep his promises, you claim. So produce something to back it up or STFU.
5. No, you didn't. You made a dual accusation and presented no evidence to support it.
6. Cheap shots from me, you say? Prove it. Then prove it's anything like what you've done here now or in the past.

I can't say that the panel's decision to longlist and shortlist makes any sense to me, but - not for the first time - you falsely present a case where you are somewhere that I want to be and try to project onto me feelings of jealously.

Scroll back up and address the issue, sport.

Sim-O: I did submit my website, against my better judgement. Iain was longlisted ahead of me. I didn't say anything at the time, as a little tyke had just died and there were blessings to count.

Plato said...

Golly what a lot of grumpy drawers we are this morning.

*reaches for revolver*

Clive said...

What I do know though, is that the judges consider me to be a better writer than you.

Hahahahahahahaha. Oh God! Stop it, my ribs are hurting. Damn, coffee all over my screen and keyboard.

You, Iain, should quit blogging and go in to stand-up comedy. That gem was priceless.

As you well know, entry to the Prize was by self-nomination. That immediately restricted the judges choice to those who, whether justifiably or not, considered themselves worthy. Many, many bloggers chose not to enter, possessing more than a modicum of modesty and self-depreciation (look 'em up, you probably don't understand either concept). So to claim that the judges consider you to be a better writer on the basis that you were sufficiently vain to think your scribblings worthy is just plain hilarious.

Just consider this, your selection by the judges might be a misplaced effort to raise the profile of the Orwell Trust.

Iain Dale said...

Sim-O, Tim rather shot your bolt there didn't he? And he is behaving like a sore loser.

I never expected to be long listed, let alone short listed. And I certainly don't expect to win. But if I do it will give a huge amount of pleasure, especially to know it will bring such pain to the likes of Justin McKeating.

Tim said...

Hey, if Iain can prove any of what he claims and maybe host or attend an honest conversation, we'll have no beef here.

Tim said...

Oh, hello Iain.

You just skipped every one of the points that you raised and I addressed to again accuse me of simple jealousy.

You can't prove any of what you claim, so why not admit it?

Iain Dale said...

Clive, your whole comment is rendered rather irrelevant. Tim Ireland submitted himself, as did 82 other bloggers, including some very good ones.

Plato said...

*goodbye cruel world*

*bang*

Iain Dale said...

Tim, "what he claims"? What are you talking about. He has said twice now that he will give up blogging if I win. Publicly. On his Twitter feed. What more proof do you need?

Sim-O said...

Iain, you might try sometime what I'm about to do.

Admit. You're. Wrong.

I got it wrong, Oh, well. It happens sometimes.

Tim said...

Iain: Oh, spare me the charade. You know thats not what you have left to prove:

"And instead of presenting any reasonable argument you have instead without basis declared Justin to be a mindless drone and projected onto him a general judgment of the left based on something you present no evidence for to prove (a) that it's true, and (b) that it applies to Justin"

I challenge you to prove any of it and/or address any of the six points you raised and then ran awa from with cries of 'jealousy'

Or would you prefer that we move the goalposts and make this conversation about what you say it's about?

Justin said...

Tim rather shot your bolt there didn't he?

It's fox. Bloody fox. Not bolt. For crying out loud. And you wonder why I'm angry that you're up for a writer's award.

JuliaM said...

"...restless minions..."

Lol! Are they better or worse than 'merry men'..? ;)

DespairingLiberal said...

Tim 10:09 - I totally agree with your characterisation of Dale's behaviour. This is a man who will leave no cheap shot unfired in his relentless quest to self-promote as some sort of modern-day Disraeli and at the same time engage in brainless guttersnipe behaviour of the worst sort when confronted by actual facts that contradict his pithy little commentaries.

The real mystery is the extent to which journalists on 24-hour TV are willing to indulge this pompous prat with airtime - do any of them actually ever read his blog? Posting after posting are just plain claptrap, distortion, outright lies or deliberate moron-fodder for the slavering Good Old Maggie of Basildon crowd. Oh God, I could go on, but really, what's the point? One just feels total despair at what passes for political discussion on TV these days.

At least Derek Draper and Guido were honest attack dogs in that broadcast and not slide self-serving pompous little liars like some. Although actually, thinking about it, Guido came off worse in that vid - Draper got the better of him.

Iain Dale said...

Tim, dearest, calm down. I don't need to prove he is a mindless drone. It is my opinion, not a fact. Just as he no doubt holds the same view of me. Blogging is about opinions, you see. As well as facts. My view of him falls into the former category. Others can make up their own minds. You see, he has a blog, which people can go to to make up their own minds.

You see? Easy, isn't it, this blogging malarkey?

Clive said...

And he is behaving like a sore loser.

So now Tim's the sore loser? Well I don't recall him threaten to quit blogging, or even having a go at your writing. All he's done is pull you up on a couple of matters regarding lack of links to the posts/comments to which you refer.

And Justin can't be a sore loser, because he didn't enter. So what's the point you're trying to make? The criticism has been based on the fact that your writing skills fall below a standard worthy of Orwell, not your political views. But rather than try and defend yourself, you know, point to items you written which display intellectual rigour, literary skills, etc, you instead fall back on the partisan abuse, evasiveness, obfuscation and woolly thinking we've come to expect of you.

What made you think your blog was worthy of entry? Seriously. Many better writers declined to enter, so what made you think you should? Vanity, hubris or perhaps you just though it would be a laugh?

It's going to take George a while to slow down from 10,000rpm in Sutton Courtney though...

Iain Dale said...

Clive, mate, stop digging.

I never accused Justin of anything, let alone being a sore loser. I am well aware he didn't enter. Tim did. Are you going to accuse him of hubris and vanity too? No, thought not.

Have I ever said I consider my writing to be on an equal with Orwell? No. Do I think that? No. Do I think other bloggers who were nominated were better writers than me? Yes. As I have said before.

So what's your point?

Tim said...

In other words, you have no evidence that Justin "masquerades as Tim Ireland's 'mini me'" or that he is prone to breaking promises and that this is in keeping with a pattern on the left (but, it is implied, not the right).

You can't prove any of the main points you make in this 'case' of yours.

Instead, you are content to pretend that you merely highlighted a twitter, and every objection to that is rooted in jealously because you're so bloody good.

Is that about right?

Tim said...

Come one, Iain... you're a big boy. Surely you can admit to being wrong.

JuliaM said...

"...actually, thinking about it, Guido came off worse in that vid - Draper got the better of him..."

*boggle*

Why am I reminded on Monty Python's knight, here?

"It's only a flesh wound!"

Iain Dale said...

I often admit when I am wrong on this blog. it's just that people conveniently forget that when it suits them. Sir Fred Goodwin, being the most recent example.

I can't admit I am wrong here because all I did was highlight a Twitter and express an opinion.

If you're trying to start Blogwars III over this, please don't bother.

Unsworth said...

Generally, any excuse for flouncing out of the room is better than none.

We can all live in hope.

And, Tim, nor can you 'prove' your expressions of 'opinion'. I don't think you've quite got this blogging thing have you?

Unsworth said...

@ Despairing (Desperate) Liberal

Do you do English, too?

Clive said...

Iain pal, mate, buddy (please select patronising epithet) I'm not the one with a shovel. I was merely pointing out that Tim was not complaining about your being shortlisted, but rather your treatment of Justin. Which makes the "sore loser" tag pointless and inaccurate. Justin could have been branded a "sore loser" had he entered, but he didn't so the label doesn't fit there either.

My point was why, if you didn't consider your writing to be that good, did you enter?

Tim said...

JuliaM: Draper's a tool, but Paul Staines bottled it. He declared on national television that he would that very afternoon produce proof of a Downing Street conspiracy against Iain Dale. (See? Evidence!)

Iain: You can't present any evidence to support/explain your arrival at this 'opinion' of yours. Neither can anyone else in this thread following on from your assertions and claiming that Justin is a mindless drone or 'apparatchik' (used by me, the Labour Party, the massive leftist conspiracy, etc.)

I am asking you again to put up or shut up. Instead, you've moved on from claims of jealously to the tired old 'blog wars' nonsense, as if any objection I might have to your conduct is a purely partisan matter.

Now can you produce *anything* to prove that Justin is, as you describe, a mindless minion, prone to breaking promises (just like almost everybody on the left and almost nobody on the right)?

Or is it simply a case of you throwing anything you can find at someone who dared to suggest that what you do is thoroughly artless?

(PS - The occasional unmitigated and gracious admission of fault - if such a thing exists in your world - does little to make up for your repeated attempts to spin and lie your way out of one false claim/assertion after another.)

Iain Dale said...

Clive, please point out where I said that Justin was a sore loser. I said that about Tim (who did enter, presumably for the same reasons as me).

Jim Baxter said...

'Many, many bloggers chose not to enter, possessing more than a modicum of modesty and self-depreciation (look 'em up, you probably don't understand either concept).'

On a point of order, I don't understand the second concept, unless it's something that you count against your income for tax purposes.

It's always fun when somebody tells you to look something up that you're too stupid to understand when they've got it wrong themselves.

Iain Dale said...

Tim, I repeat. It is my opinion that he is a mindless drone. I don't need to substantiate opinions. I just point to his writings. Just as you think I am a mindless drone, you point to my various writings. I let people draw their own conclusions.

Tim said...

Don't ever presume that I am anything like you, Iain. More often than not, doing so will be a mistake.

Clive's point that you seek to dodge is that the 'sore loser' tag is irrelevant, and you're a small man to have brandished it in the first place.

Now can you prove that Justin is what you make him out to be or not? I'm betting not.

Clive said...

Oh good grief Iain! I didn't say that you called Justin a sore loser.

I pointed out that Tim couldn't be a sore loser because his criticism was of your treatment of Justin, not your being shortlisted.

And, for added emphasis, I pointed out the reasons that accusation couldn't be leveled at Justin either.

Oliver Drew said...

Good Lord. This is like watching children argue over the last little piece of chocolate - pathetic and mildly nauseating!

In the end - Iain is right, blogs are about opinion. If you don't like it, you have the option of refuting it in the comments, or indeed responding in kind on your own blogs.

Unfortunately "blog wars" are becoming all too frequent at the moment - the "left" bloggers seem to be striking out at any centre-right blogger that moves; with the centre-right all too eager to respond. Iain (it should perhaps be noted) didn't start the fight with Draper, or the fight here. I suggest you all get over it!!!

Tim said...

Iain, the difference between the two items you're waving about is that I can produce evidence to back my assertions... though you have in the past taken to calling me a link-spammer, obsessive, etc. when I do this.

And you don't point to his writings, as you claim here. You haven't pointed to or linked to anything. You've shown a screengrtab of a single twitter.

Put up or shut up, Iain.

Clive said...

t's always fun when somebody tells you to look something up that you're too stupid to understand when they've got it wrong themselves.

More fun when someone tries to be clever and gets it so wrong. Bet it takes practice to make yourself look a tit like that.

Self-depreciation - noun - a feeling of humility; undervaluing onself or one's abilities.

Tim said...

"you have the option of refuting it in the comments, or indeed responding in kind on your own blogs"

Yes, but what Iain doesn't mention is all of the little tricks he uses to take unfair advantage of his position as host of any given conversation. He has also gone to great pains to respond to my blogging about his repeated comment cheating by making it out to be the work of an obsessive.

So I've been though all of that, thanks.

Not that it was worth addressing; your assumption/assertion that this has anything to do with Draper (and/or that I'm siding with Draper in any way) shows you to be a fool or a liar.

So, Iain, is it your position that you arrive at 'opinions' not on the basis of evidence, just your own infallible instincts?

Tim said...

Tell you what, Iain, why don't you show all these nice people how brave and open you are about online conversations and show them one single instance where you have engaged in a debate on my website. Just one.

Iain Dale said...

Tim, Sadly, I now have to concentrate on some work, diverting though this has been. I arrive at my opinions in my own way, and I don't need you to tell me how to do it, but thanks for the offer.

Later. I shall leave you all to continue to enjoy this meaningless debate.

Tim said...

All I need do here is note that Iain retires without producing a scrap of evidence to back any of his assertions.

Again.

Instead, he's going to leave it to his comment minions to make meaningless noises and baseless claims.

Again.

You're a class act all the way, Iain.

Oliver Drew said...

Not that it was worth addressing; your assumption/assertion that this has anything to do with Draper (and/or that I'm siding with Draper in any way) shows you to be a fool or a liar.

No. I didn't assert in any way that this had anything to do with Draper - I was merely pointing out that this is not the first time the centre-left and centre-right had clashed on blogs, and that on neither occasion did the centre-right start it.

As I said I think this escapade has all been a bit pathetic.

Tim said...

If it's nowt to do with Draper, then why bring him up?

And you've fallen into line with Iain's oft-repeated line that this is a purely partisan matter.

Oliver Drew said...

@Tim

Perhaps it was a mistake, fair cop on that one.

Fallen into line - I don't know. I think you have both been rather pathetic to be honest (as I've already said!).

If this is not simply partisan on your part then fair enough - but some of the comments on here have been (on both sides).

Anyway....time to give this up now I think and for us to go back to our respective lives eh? I've got a paper to write!

Unsworth said...

Good Grief!

This 'Tim' person is a complete monocular obsessive.

Has he/she got out of somewhere?

Anyway much of this bollox is totally off topic and is mere playground (yep, that word again) squabbling.

JuliaM said...

"...making it out to be the work of an obsessive."

You don't think anyone needs to do that, do you?

You're doing a pretty good job on that all by your ownself...

wild said...

Left = Envy

Tim said...

Thanks for admitting that.

To be clear, I'm only here because Iain's attack on Justin is dishonest, and (in part) this follows Iain making out that he does not have the time/capacity to handle another matter which is a point of some sensitivity between us.

And one of Iain's favourite tactics is to attack you (or stand by and allow you to be attacked), making it less likely tha you will persist in calling him on his bullshit.

Look at what Iain asserts in his post; he can't produce anything to back it, even when challenged.

You have to ask yourself how many other opinions he has based on nothing but his own personal prejudice.

Sim-O said...

Left = Envy

of what, exactly?

Unsworth said...

@ Tim

You're a prat, an obsessed prat. All opinions are just that - opinions. You have to realise that ultimately everything is a matter of opinion - but maybe you don't understand any philosophy.

Actually you seem to understand very little - including that this is Iain's blog and he can do whatever the hell he feels like doing. You see, that's the beauty of having your own blog. Quite why Iain allows all this O/T stuff I don't really know, but one has to admire his tolerance of the loonies. And what's this bollox about 'standing by'? It's really his choice as to whether he will defend contributors or intervene or not.

Now, do you have a blog of your own by any chance? If so why don't you attend to that and stop trying to tell other people how to run theirs, eh? Or is this all some desperate attempt on your part to drum up a little traffic? Maybe you could just find something a little interesting to say if that's the case.

wild said...

Envy - "an unconscious mechanism that goes about destroying what one does not have, in order to eliminate the emotional pain of not having it."

Iain Dale - "arguably the country’s pre-eminent political blogger, along with Guido Fawkes"

Are two opinions. My impression is that you are a few sad little men envious of Iain Dale's success as a blogger, but of course I could be wrong.

Tim said...

Sim-O: It's only an opinion. What does it matter?

Incidentally, I'm of the opinion that if David Cameron used hard drugs in the past, then his chosen life partner is 79% likely to have partaken in a bit of the hard stuff herself. Mind you, that's only an opinion, and I can't produce any evidence of that assertion or even the assumption I have carefully balanced it on.

See how easy it is? And the impact of that or any other 'mere opinion' differs greatly depending on what I place it next to.

Iain knows that Justin does not operate as anyone's stooge.

I will leave it to your judgement to decide why he would do so in response to Justin's stance on the quality of Iain's work.

Iain, by contrast, has played the willing stooge repeatedly:

Grant Shapps, Damian Green and Carol Thatcher are just three examples of Iain playing the stooge and presenting carefully spun (sometimes wholly imagined) versions of events for his Tory mates (with or without their asking for it).

I challenge Iain to produce three valid examples to counter my mine in an effort to make his case.

(The important thing to look for, Iain, is Justin making out that he believes in something that is either wholly absurd or entirely made up. You know; lying.)

wild said...

By sad I mean of course unhappy and pathetic.

Tim said...

a) why he would do *this* in response

b) and maybe a few examples of Justin breaking a clear promise, too, when you're ready, Iain

I only have one example to hand at the mo, so do forgive me:

Remember promising to relay a message to Patrick Mercer? Remember claiming it had definitely been passed on? It wasn't. Now, are you claiming that Patrick Mercer is a straighforward, honest man *and* an outright liar?

wild said...

Which prompts the thought "How do you have a discussion with somebody who is disordered?"

Plato said...

*resurrected in time for Easter*

Are we nearly there yet?

Tim said...

No, we're not there until Iain realises that he's dug himself into another hole than can only climb out of by banning me for one reason while claiming another, and then finishing the conversation without me or anyone else pressing the same point (on the claimed/implied basis that they only do so on my instructions).

Thatsnews said...

DL for gawds sake book a room for you and Tim. Then you can have your love-in out of the view of other people.

Jim Baxter said...

@Clive,

I'll take your word for it that that was meant rather than the commoner, and so my favourite, 'deprecation'.

I'll work harder on my own self-disparagement in the meantime.

Sim-O said...

Oh, envy. Thanks for providing the definition. I always get envy muddled up with envoy.

Tim said...

Sim-O: Pfft!

Iain: When you're ready. You know I can be very patient with you if needs be.

Clive said...

Jim, apology accepted.
Self-deprecating doesn't really work in the context of my original statement. There's nothing apologetic about showing humility in not submitting oneself for an award.

Jim Baxter said...

@Clive,

It's a fair cop. I'll try to be a smarter smart-arse in future. Or maybe just shut-up more often, That would work too.

Tim said...

Now if only Iain could be so humble.

Come on, Iain, admit it; you made Justin out to be something that he is not.

King Athelstan said...

Obsessive ? Tim ? surely some mistake, what ?

Tim said...

"Obsessive ? Tim ? surely some mistake, what ?"

Cheat? Iain Dale? Surely some mistake, what ?

[OK, so which one will you delete, Iain?]

Houdini said...

Houdini: Establishment stooges, you say? Prove it, mouth...

Read you and McKeatings blog for years.

Proven, and pity you don't have the courage of others who decide not to bow down and hide what they truly believe and support. You would have done well in WW2 as a Vichy French Milice patsy, mouth.

Houdini said...

Given the amount of hand wringing, envy and whining of the lefties here, and their trolls, Iain has been completely justified and proved right in all his summations.

Tim said...

/godwin

Proven how? Show me a single scrap of evidence, or risk showing that you're all mouth. Mouth.

Clive said...

See Houdini, that's just a typical ignorant and blinkered attitude. Someone dares to criticise the Blessed Saint Iain and they must be envious lefties. That the reality might be that there is a non-political motive behind our critiques is just beyond your intellectual abilities to grasp.

So I'll say it bluntly; I couldn't give a f**k about Iain's politics in regard to the Orwell Prize. In my opinion he's a hack with writing skills below those claimed to underpin the values of the Orwell Prize. I have yet to see one item on Iain's blog which exhibits the vaguest hint of artistic talent.

That's why I think his being shortlisted shows the Orwell Trust in a poor light.

Carl said...

Iain gets nominated for an award most people have never heard of. Main difference is Orwell's 1984 bored me rigid for my O'levels, while Dale's GCSE-standard twitterings has bored me for a total of 1,824 minutes to date.

Iain Dale's Diary... the political blog equivalent of "Ok" magazine with endless puffs about the publisher.

Give him the award, for the love of Cliff Richard. If only because he may then gag on his own cock as he sucks himself of in self love.

Carl Eve

Carl said...

What... you printed that!?

I'm appalled.

And why haven't I been banned for suggesting you have a vertebrae missing and can self-fellate...

Admit it... you've tried it haven't you Iain?

*oh, yeah, the Orwell award... just.. let.. me.. bend.. forwards.. another.. two.... inches.. gah!.. *

Tim said...

So, Iain leaves his comment minions to do his job for him and the best they can do is (without a scrap of evidence) describe Justin and myself as the equivalent of a Nazi collaborators.

Well done, Iain. Way to engage and defend your point.

(slow claps)

Tim said...

On the subject of my allegation that Iain Dale has broken promises:

Iain wants me to keep the contents of the relevant email a secret (I'm asking right now why I should bother), but I've just found out how he can claim to have kept his promise to contact Patrisk Mercer and how Patrick Mercer can at the same time claim that my call was the first he'd heard of any of it.

Hint: It's because one of them was lying.

To find out which one (for now) you'll have to ask Iain.

Houdini said...

Proven how? Show me a single scrap of evidence, or risk showing that you're all mouth. Mouth.

ROFLMFAO!!!

You really are the most pathetic big girls blouse aren't you? What's up, did Dolly spank you about and you come to Dale to try and validate your credentials?

The lefties are a pathetic bunch of trolls who failed to understand what the thread actually said in their rush to be seen to be right.

Boohooo.

Houdini said...

So I'll say it bluntly; I couldn't give a f**k about Iain's politics in regard to the Orwell Prize. In my opinion he's a hack with writing skills below those claimed to underpin the values of the Orwell Prize. I have yet to see one item on Iain's blog which exhibits the vaguest hint of artistic talent.

And you can quantify that opinion exactly how?

You are a troll for a poor loser. Now I think enough has been said although no doubt Ireland and Mckeating will neatly tuck this away for future reference whenever they feel like a cry.

Tim said...

Now you're trying to imply that that this has something to do with Draper (as well as the Nazis and the Labour Party)... but you can't prove any of it.

Because you're all mouth. Mouth.

Houdini said...

Now you're trying to imply that that this has something to do with Draper (as well as the Nazis and the Labour Party)... but you can't prove any of it.

Because you're all mouth. Mouth.


Jeez, for somebody that purports to be so clever and such a marvellous constructor of quality prose, you really are a dimwit aren't you?

Is it any wonder the left is now seen as a joke by any and everyone not feebly trying to be an apologist for Labour?

Now move along you cretin.

JuliaM said...

"...for somebody that purports to be so clever and such a marvellous constructor of quality prose, you really are a dimwit aren't you?"

Yes, well. Self praise really is no recommendation... ;)

Clive said...

Yes, well. Self praise really is no recommendation... ;)

A comment Iain would do well to keep in mind...

Iain Dale said...

You really are a toerag, with your sly insinuations. I challenge you to provide a single instance where I have praised myself, in particualr with regard to the Orwell Prize. On several occasions I have stated that I believe Alix Mortimer is a better writer than I am.

I can see why you associate with Ireland. You piss in the same pot.

Wireman said...

"I challenge you to provide a single instance where I have praised myself, in particualr with regard to the Orwell Prize."

http://bit.ly/JccVx

Iain Dale said...

Wireman, what a prat you are. That is a statement of fact. Not self praise.

Clive said...

You really are a toerag, with your sly insinuations.

Toerag eh? Very witty, almost prize-winning stuff. Still, I try to fit in with a group of commentators that includes such prize wits as Houdini and JuliaM, so I'll take that as praise.

In response to your question, I'll apologise if you can confirm that you nominated yourself for the Orwell Prize as a joke. Because otherwise you must have believed that your writings were worthy of consideration, and that smacks of self-praise. Actually, I'll add a further option, namely promoting yourself and your blog.

If your reason for nominating yourself was a) for a laugh or b) for purposes of self-promotion then I'll apologise for accusing you of self-praise. Deal?

PS. I'd rather piss in the same pot as Tim, that sh*t on the same pavement as Staines.

Wireman said...

"That is a statement of fact. Not self praise."

It's bigger than your head. Which is saying something.

Tim said...

"Iain is a widely respected journalist"

1. Iain, was this sentence (from your bio) a statement of fact?

2. Can you remind me who wrote it before you approved it and distributed it? You claim it wasn't you, but was it an agent/copywriter working to your brief?

Just so we can properly debate if it counts as self-praise, you understand.

Iain Dale said...

It's after the watershed, so let me say this. Piss off and go and annoy someone else. If this harrassment continues, you know the consequence. I am very happy to ban you again.

Let me remind you of my published rules...

"Persistent abuse of me, the host of this blog by way of spurious allegations or name-calling is liable to result in a ban, either for a period of time or permanently. You may disagree with me, but there is a limit to my patience if my hospitality is abused."

One more comment like this and you cop it.

Wireman said...

"If this harrassment continues...

Iain, old salt, "harassment" only has the one "r". "Embarrassment" is the one with two. Is that perhaps what you meant?

Justin said...

Here's a paragraph from the email I sent to the Orwell Trust on Friday...

His blogging is little more than sub-demagogic calls to a base readership steeped in prejudice. He runs his blog as some kind of online fiefdom, doling out patronage to his favourites, suppressing and smearing his critics. He flees from arguments, debate and criticism, trailing behind him petulant insults masquerading as wit, the arbitrary refusal of right to reply, and a private army of anonymous online henchmen who libel and attack opponents with impunity. His methods and so-called talents are anathema to everything Orwell stood for.

Very nice of Iain to orchestrate a fresh example. I think I'll send them the link to this thread.

And that's my last word. Ta, ta, you political literary artisan, you.

Iain Dale said...

Do feel free to share the rest of the email with us. I am sure it gave the Orwell Prize people a good laugh. Did you type it in the colour green?

Tim said...

More excuses.

And the same old implications of stalking/obsession/harassment again, which I find to be very amusing given the event at the centre of the latest stunt you pulled.

If you genuinely think you're being harassed or spammed, you can report me for either, so do that or STFU.

Over to mine to explain yourself, Iain, or we're going to have a problem.

PS - I find it very amusing that you do something and I call you on it, and you scream 'abuse'... and then accuse me of things I am not guilty of.

Carl said...

Hmmm... Piss in the same pot as Tim... or wallow in the same sewer as Staines.

Not the hardest choice in the world, is it Iain?